In 2 Corinthians 12, Paul writes,
I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows—was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell. (vv. 2-4)
Who was this man who was “caught up to the third heaven” or “paradise”? Based on the context, many Bible interpreters think it was Paul. But why doesn’t Paul know whether he was in his body or out of it?
If we remain conscious outside our body, how would we know if we are in or out of our body?
In December 1943 George Ritchie was in basic training in Texas when he developed a severe case of double pneumonia then was pronounced dead. But mysteriously he continues, “I sat up with a start” (44). He looked around, noticed that he was in an unfamiliar room, saw someone lying on the bed, and started looking for his clothes. He walked into the hallway, where he was completely ignored by an officer. He then found himself flying to Richmond, Virginia, hovering over trees and towns. Along the way, he stopped in a town, tried to get someone’s attention, but again was ignored. After attempting to lean against a tension cable of a telephone pole, his body went right through it. This led him to start wondering if he had lost his body.
He rushed back to Texas, eventually found his body on a bed under a sheet, then realized that he was dead. “But I was not dead! How could I be dead and still be awake? Thinking. Experiencing. Death was different. Death was . . . I did not know. Blanking out. Nothingness. I was me, wide awake, only without a physical body to function in” (56).
After Ritchie realized that he had died, an impossibly bright light entered the room. He grasped that the light was actually a man, “a Man made out of light.” Then somehow these words were communicated to him, “Stand up! You are in the presence of the Son of God.” Ritchie’s story continues for another nine chapters in his book Return from Tomorrow, published in 1978.
Ritchie occasionally shared his otherworldly story while becoming a physician and psychiatrist. In 1965 Raymond Moody, an undergraduate student at the time, heard Dr. Ritchie share his unique experience. Four years later, while teaching philosophy at East Carolina University, one of Moody’s students conveyed a similar story. In fact, Moody says the student’s story was “identical to what I’d heard from Dr. Ritchie,” causing him to wonder if others had had similar experiences. He started interviewing patients then in 1975, after earning a PhD in philosophy, Moody published his analysis of about 150 near-death cases in his groundbreaking book Life After Life. (Moody coined the term near-death experience or NDE.) Since Ritchie did not want the book dedicated to him, Moody dedicated it “To George Ritchie, M.D., and, through him, to the One whom he suggested.” With his careful documentation and comparison of cases, Moody made near-death experiences a respectable topic of study. In addition, he highlighted the common elements of these experiences, including out-of-body experiences (OBEs).
And that brings us back to Paul’s comment. How would Paul know if he was in his body or out of his body? Ritchie was convinced after looking at his body. Only then did he know for certain that he was outside of it. Paul’s lack of knowledge—”Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know”— shows that unlike Ritchie’s experience, Paul’s experience did not include a view of his body.
Most importantly, however, for all of us, Paul’s comment along with thousands of out-of-body accounts suggest that our existence or persistence or ongoing awareness is not dependent on our body.
After graduating from Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, I served as a high school Bible teacher in Asia. I enjoy traveling, writing, and playing the drums. My latest book focuses on Paul’s work as a tentmaker and what it means for today.
This is a very interesting subject and one that I plan to look into in the coming year.
I would like to comment on your in-depth study on NDE. You have gone very deep into this subject.
During the ministry of Jesus, he constantly said he was sent by the Father. He did nothing of his own will, including his death on the cross. The miracles he performed, the gospel he taught with authority, were from the Father. Jesus never told a lie.
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free. (John 8:32)
Is NDE associated with perceived consciousness apart from the body?
Let me share scriptures that prove the word of God is not to be confused and not a lie.
But, as it is written, “No eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no mind has imagined the things that God has prepared for those who love him.” (1 Cor 2:9)
Have thousands of people documented based on surveys have NDEs? Are these deathbed experiences to be taken literally? Are Christians to believe God has given the thousands that are documented to have NDEs but not the billions and billions and billions of people who have died not to experience these claims?
The scripture clearly states, “NO EYE has SEEN, NO EAR has HEARD, and NO MIND has IMAGINED.”
Does the word “NO” apply to some people and not all?
Does God confuse anyone who desires to understand truth?
There is only one way to worship the Father. Any other way is misguided, misinterpreted, and error.
But the time is coming–indeed it’s here now–when true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. The Father is looking for those who will worship him that way. For God is Spirit, so those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth. (John 4:23-24)
Your quote on Christians who reject the these experiences reads.
“…strikes me as lazy and fearful. Since all truth is God’s truth, what do we need to be afraid of? If people are reporting these experiences, we should at least carefully consider them.”
Christians should be afraid of getting hooked into the world’s deception. Is evolution of man via monkeys deception? Should Christians who worship the Father in spirit and truth reject NDEs? Yes, they should. These experiences are demonic deception. They are not to be trusted as spirit and truth taught by Jesus, who taught the twelve apostles and Paul.
You stated, “Jesus was equally pessimistic when saying that if Lazarus were sent from the world of the dead to the rich man’s house, ‘they would not believe him.'”
Did you not understand the story about Lazarus and the rich man was spoken as a parable?
Jesus spoke in Spirit, parables, riddles, and metaphors.
All these things Jesus spoke to the multitude in parables; and without a parable He did not speak to them, (Matt 13:34)
And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?” He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. (Matt 13:10-11)
Are NDEs mysteries of the kingdom of heaven?
Are Christians to accept and believe Moody’s book Life After Life because it has core NDE elements? Are Christians to accept NDEs as factual and not decern it as demonic sensationalism?
For the living know that they will die, [but the dead know nothing]; they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is forgotten. (Ecc 9:5)
Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, [the grave] there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom. (Ecc 9:10)
For the dead, do not remember you. Who can praise you from the grave?” (Psalm 6:5)
The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence. (Psa 115:17)
Those scriptures have the same spiritual meaning. After people die, they have NO CONSCIOUSNESS, NO KNOWLEDGE, NO UNDERSTANDING. They hear nothing, see nothing, or speak anything.
Jesus stated this profound truth.
I will use a metaphor “icing on the cake” to imply the gospel truth.
There is no one who has gone up to Heaven, but there is One who has come down from Heaven, namely the Son of Man whose home is in Heaven. (John 3:13)
Here is the question? Is Jesus a liar regarding John 3:13?
Paul had visions and revelations from the Lord. Paul did not know whether he had an in the body or out-of-body experience. Paul stated only God knew. Paul was commanded not to reveal the ‘inexpressible things heard.’ The scripture doesn’t say it was inexpressible things seen.
Paul’s experience would contradict John 3:13. It would make Jesus a liar.
God is no respecter of persons. (Acts 10:34 )
Why would God single out Paul to experience an NDE?
Paul had to be either dead or alive. If Paul was dead, he wouldn’t have a conscience (Ecc 9:5). And if Paul had an NDE, that would mean Paul bypassed the resurection of the dead. All those thousands of documented cases from NDEs bypassed the resurection, too.
Jesus told the wailing crowd the little girl is not dead but asleep. They laughed at him because they knew she was dead. Jesus spoke in spirit. They didn’t understand the metaphor; ‘she was asleep.’ Jesus raised the 12-year-old girl from the dead, not an NDE. (Luke 8:55)
You stated that people who experience NDEs “have a reduced fear of death and a stronger belief in life after death. I think these are all good things that align with the Bible.” (Matt. 7:16)
It is good for people to know about life after death without any deceptive distortion of bible truths. We are living in the last days. Many false prophets are already within the church, misleading believers away from the gospel of Jesus Christ. Sensationalism in the church has corrupt the truth. A very good example is the book The Boy Who Came Back. They also made a movie based on the boys’ experience, which by the grace of God has been exposed as a lie. Astoundly, the Tyndale publishing company got duped because who would accuse a little boy who came out of a two month coma a liar? Even demons acknowledged Jesus as the Son of the Most High.
By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, (1 John 4:2)
Is every NDE experience confessing that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh?
Millions of Christians believe Jesus came in the flesh and still believe in heresy, misinterpretation, errors and deception that people become angels to watch over people after they die, they go straight to heaven bypassing the resurrection, they have the gift of speaking in (gibberish) tongues, tithing ten percent of your income is scriptural, slain in the spirit by healing (laying of the hands), finding God is in a church building, learning the Bible is only by hearing televangelist, the gospel is all about prosperity for profit, and you can believe anyone who claim these NDEs. Is all that bible truths?
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! (Gal. 1:8)
My friends, Jesus, stated the Father seeks those who worship him in spirit and truth. You must worship him that way. There is no other way. Truth sets us free from deception.
How can we know and have bible truths?
But you have received the Holy Spirit, and he lives within you, so you don’t need anyone to teach you what is true. For the Spirit teaches you everything you need to know, and what he teaches is true—it is not a lie. So just as he has taught you, remain in fellowship with Christ. (1 John 2:27)
Hello Ruben. Thanks for your comment.
It sounds like you have deep theological problems with near-death experiences. Your fundamental argument is that “After people die, they have NO CONSCIOUSNESS, NO KNOWLEDGE, NO UNDERSTANDING. They hear nothing, see nothing, or speak anything.”
The three Scriptures you used to support this point come from the Old Testament (two from Ecclesiastes and one from Psalms). I believe more light was given on this topic in the New Testament, especially through Christ’s resurrection. As Paul said, “This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel” (2 Tim. 1:9-10). This is the basic idea of progressive revelation.
Since you object to near-death experiences on the basis of this argument, which you believe is taught in Scripture, perhaps the best I can do is point you to other Scriptures. Your basic point aligns with the idea of soul sleep, which is a view held by significant Christian thinkers, such as Martin Luther. I have addressed this concept in my book “Surprised by Hell.”
Scriptures which challenge or even undermine the idea of soul sleep include:
1. Jesus’ words to the thief on the cross.
But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”
Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”
Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.” (Lk. 23:40-43)
2. Paul’s statement in 2 Corinthians 5.
Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. For we live by faith, not by sight. We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. (2 Cor. 5:6-9)
3. Paul’s statement in Philippians 1.
I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body. (Phil. 1:23-24)
I think it is highly unlikely that these references are referring to an unconscious state after death. It is “paradise,” “better by far,” and “with Christ.”
Additionally, you have left out the last line in your quotation of 1 Corinthians 2.
However, as it is written:
“What no eye has seen,
what no ear has heard,
and what no human mind has conceived”—
the things God has prepared for those who love him—
these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.
Paul is saying that we are not completely ignorant of these things because God has revealed them to us.
Two Christian authors who address theological challenges presented by NDEs are Michael Sabom and Gary Habermas. I recommend you read Sabom’s book Light and Death. And Habermas answers a few questions in this article. Habermas believes the best evidence comes from evidential NDEs in which people return to consciousness knowing things that that occurred in the physical world during the time of their unconsciousness. These are facts that can be and have been corroborated by others.
Lastly, I am not saying you must believe every NDE account. I pointed out a fake account here. In fact, salvation in Christ does not require you to believe a single NDE. This is more of a practical issue. These are hyperreal life-changing experiences for those who have them so we must have some way of addressing them. How would you respond if your neighbor shared their NDE with you? I argue that loving our neighbor requires us to listen to them carefully then search the Scriptures. Believers should test these stories with Scripture. But our interpretation of Scripture must also be tested.